Exclusive Interview | Islam, secularisation and bin Salman's reforms in Saudi Arabia

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is known as the pioneer of reform policies and secularisation process in the country.

In this context, while secularisation is gaining momentum in the country, there are actions that attract the reaction of Islamic groups. Since Bin Salman's seizure of power, a large number of Islamic scholars and preachers have been imprisoned.

Mepa News conducted an interview with ‘Saudi Arabia's Reality’, which conducts research on the reform process in Saudi Arabia.

What changes (such as concerts, cinemas, gender mix, etc.) have taken place in the social fabric of the Kingdom since Mohammed bin Salman came to power? Could you describe this in more detail?

Since Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman took power, Saudi Arabia has witnessed significant and unprecedented social changes. Although Saudi Arabia has traditionally been conservative in many aspects, these changes have led to profound outcomes affecting the identity of Saudi society. One of the most notable actions by Mohammed bin Salman has been the establishment of the General Entertainment Authority (GEA). While its declared role is to handle entertainment events, in practice, it has introduced initiatives far beyond entertainment, implementing Western-style activities and events in the kingdom. This development reflects an attempt to detach Saudi society from its conservative roots, values, and social customs. Among the key initiatives by the GEA are organizing loud music concerts, promoting excessive gender mixing in public spaces, opening cinemas that display movies without restrictions, and launching nightclubs such as "Beast House," which is owned by "MDLBEAST," a company linked to the Public Investment Fund.

Additionally, under Mohammed bin Salman's leadership, there has been a noticeable reduction in the influence of religious institutions and an expansion of the role of the GEA, raising questions about the fate of the social and religious values that have been foundational to the state since its inception. Many Saudis perceive these changes as a threat to the cultural and religious identity of their society, where the focus has shifted towards attracting tourists and promoting entertainment at the expense of values that were once central to the kingdom.

We have seen some reports of cinemas opening in the Medina and other such things. Are these kinds of un-Islamic practices limited to cities like Jeddah and Riyadh, or are they also happening in Medina and Mecca?

The changes initially focused on major cities like Riyadh and Jeddah, given their higher population density and established presence in entertainment and economic sectors. However, these transformations are not confined to these cities alone; their influence has spread to Makkah, Madinah, and other areas across the kingdom, with strong official support. For instance, Makkah recently saw the opening of its largest cinema, a move that has surprised many citizens and observers, as they believe Makkah should maintain its spiritual sanctity and remain free from entertainment activities. In Madinah as well, similar shifts are occurring, with establishments offering live music and performances near sacred sites. The expansion of entertainment activities in these cities raises questions about how these changes will affect the kingdom's religious identity.

Nationwide musical tours have indeed received substantial government support, including facilitated transportation, free travel services, and the inclusion of many areas for these events.

In recent years, there has been a serious increase in un-Islamic practices in Saudi Arabia, which is normally a conservative and pious country. Is this a long-term phenomenon or did it start with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman?

The inclination towards non-Islamic practices in Saudi Arabia only began in recent years, specifically after 2015, when Mohammed bin Salman rose to prominence. Until recent years, the kingdom pursued highly conservative policies rooted in a long-standing alliance with religious scholars and leaders. This alliance ensured that Saudi Arabia followed a traditional Islamic approach in its social and religious policies, with institutions like the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice wielding considerable authority to enforce religious and social values across the community.

With the onset of Mohammed bin Salman's leadership and his appointment as Crown Prince in 2017, the kingdom began to experience unprecedented transformations, including a marked reduction in the role of religious institutions. The beginning of these changes saw the empowerment of the GEA, which has since taken charge of major entertainment events like music concerts and artistic performances—activities that contrast sharply with the kingdom’s traditional Islamic identity. These transformations also include a focus on tourism and entertainment, prompting concern that these policies may pose a threat to religious values that were long regarded as a cornerstone of the state’s identity.

For example, Saudi Arabia has recently allowed the organization of religious tours for Christians to Mount Lawz in Tabuk, marking a shift towards a new direction led by Mohammed bin Salman. Mount Lawz holds significance in Christian beliefs, as it is thought to be the Biblical Mount Sinai, and has attracted Christian visitors with official Saudi support. Joel Richardson, the organizer of these tours, has made controversial statements, describing the Quran as "more offensive than Hitler's book against the Jews." He has also disparaged the status of Makkah, deeming it less significant than other religious sites. Despite these remarks, Richardson has not faced any restrictions on his visits to Saudi Arabia or on organizing these trips to Mount Lawz; instead, he has received official facilitation. These practices raise questions about the Saudi authorities' stance on such statements, which many consider offensive to the kingdom’s Islamic identity.

At the moment there is a genocide going on in Gaza for more than a year. But we don't see any protest in the country or any serious attempt by the Saudi government to stop the bloodshed in Gaza. On the contrary, there are festivals and other kinds of celebrations. What is the reason for this?

The absence of protests regarding ongoing events in Gaza, coupled with the continuation of festivals and entertainment activities in Saudi Arabia, reflects a policy aimed at diverting public attention away from major regional issues, such as the Palestinian cause. The Saudi authorities have conducted widespread arrests of religious scholars and preachers who previously expressed support for Palestine or defended Palestinian rights. This crackdown has silenced opposing voices and stifled public discourse on Islamic community issues. At the same time, the government continues to host entertainment activities that are unrelated to regional or religious matters, indicating a move away from reinforcing the kingdom’s Islamic identity.

Saudi Arabia is seen as one of the leading states in the Islamic world. But it is generally insensitive to the Palestinian issue. Do you think that Mohammed bin Salman or the Saudi regime cares about the Palestinian issue?

It is evident that the Saudi regime under Mohammed bin Salman has begun to distance itself from the Palestinian cause. While Saudi Arabia was once one of the foremost supporters of Palestine, the relationship with "Israel" and the trend towards normalization have taken on an official tone. In recent years, there have been attempts to build ties with "Israel" at the expense of Palestinian concerns, angering many Saudis and Arabs. Numerous media reports have highlighted these normalization efforts, focusing on economic and diplomatic interactions, underscoring a shift in political priorities.

The Saudi government has arrested several prominent Palestinian figures and banned any activities promoting solidarity with Gaza or opposing normalization with "Israel." This policy demonstrates that the Saudi regime no longer prioritizes the Palestinian cause as it once did and has instead begun restructuring its regional and international priorities at the expense of Palestine.

In recent years, Saudi Arabia's focus has increasingly shifted toward countering traditional Islamic practices while pursuing normalization with "Israel," despite the Palestinian cause's historic prominence in Saudi policy. It is believed that the decision to abandon the Palestinian cause was made years ago, though its official announcement was postponed to avoid a widespread public backlash. The arrest of several Palestinian leaders in Saudi Arabia is a strong indication of the kingdom's diminishing interest in the Palestinian cause.

The latest developments, such as the kingdom’s silence on events in Gaza during the "Al-Aqsa Flood" operation and the lack of a significant Saudi stance defending Palestinian rights, underscore that Saudi Arabia no longer plays its customary role in this issue, despite its religious and Arab status. This approach, which adopts a more pragmatic stance towards "Israel," raises significant questions about the future of the Palestinian cause in Saudi policy.

As you know, long before Mohammed bin Salman came to power, many Islamic scholars were imprisoned. But since Mohammed bin Salman consolidated his power, we have seen that almost all the famous scholars and preachers of Islam have been imprisoned and even died in prison. What can you say about this situation?

The detention of dozens of Islamic scholars since Mohammed bin Salman took power is part of a repressive policy aimed at controlling religious thought within the kingdom. Many of these scholars, such as Sheikh Salman al-Ouda, Sheikh Awad al-Qarni, and Dr. Ali al-Omari, represented a moderate religious voice and were widely respected within Saudi Arabia and across the Arab and Islamic world. These scholars were part of the moderate "Islamic Awakening" movement that emerged in the 1970s and 1980s, and their opinions were highly regarded and respected by Saudi leaders.

With the start of Mohammed bin Salman's reign and the simultaneous rise of secular and liberal trends, the Saudi regime began to view these scholars as a threat to its rule, leading to a large-scale crackdown targeting prominent religious figures. This campaign also included other influencers on social media and sought to reduce the impact of moderate Islamic scholars and curtail their influence in public life.

Alongside these detentions, the kingdom has significantly scaled back the role of religious institutions, such as the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, which previously played a substantial role in enforcing Islamic values in society. In contrast, the GEA’s role has been expanded, making it the main authority responsible for entertainment and cultural activities. This shift underscores a transformation in state priorities from a focus on Islamic law to embracing entertainment and international events. These changes have deepened the rift between the government and religious factions within Saudi society, sparking widespread debate over the impact of these policies on the kingdom’s Islamic identity.

Recently, we have seen that some secular and liberal opinion leaders are becoming famous in Saudi Arabia and the current government is trying to popularise this kind of people. Is this part of the attempt to secularise the Saudi people?

Indeed, the government’s support for secular and liberal figures in Saudi Arabia is part of a broader strategy aimed at altering the cultural and social identity of the kingdom. The authorities are actively promoting secular and liberal voices, reflecting an effort to Westernize Saudi society and introduce Western values. These figures have been showcased as part of Mohammed bin Salman’s "modernization" efforts, receiving significant media platforms to share their ideas. These policies represent a departure from the Islamic values that once defined the kingdom, nudging society towards values that may be distant from the country’s original identity.

What do people inside and outside the country think about these practices? Will this kind of practice by the Saudi government cause a social explosion and an uprising against the current regime?

Inside the Kingdom, many Saudis express widespread discontent regarding the ongoing changes in Saudi society. On social media, significant resistance can be observed from numerous citizens who feel these recent policies threaten the religious and social values that define their community. Outside Saudi Arabia, Islamic and Arab communities widely criticize these changes, with some viewing them as a severe retreat from the Islamic principles on which the Kingdom was founded.

While social tensions are rising, there appears to be no active movement toward a revolt. However, if public dissatisfaction continues to grow, it could impact the stability of the current regime over time.

Meanwhile, outside the Kingdom, through our project "Saudi Arabia's Reality," which reaches a broad audience in 13 different languages, we see public engagement, solidarity, and frustration at these changes. These transformations affect not only Saudi Arabia but also the broader region and the entire Islamic world. "Saudi Arabia's Reality" aims to shed light on the religious and social shifts occurring in the Kingdom across multiple languages.